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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
442
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Posted - 2013.06.20 01:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
I too am curious about the Art's opinion on the Mammoth. I actually like the look of all three Minmatar haulers (why I fly them instead of currently-superior Gallente spacedildos), including the Hoarder, but I don't understand how the Hoarder is better. Certainly the Mammoth could use some touching-up and updating, but that can really be said of all the minmatar haulers - especially when compared to newly-remodeled Matari ships such as the Stabber and Tempest.
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
442
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Posted - 2013.06.20 01:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
As long as they get redesigned, I'm willing to gamble. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
443
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Posted - 2013.06.20 05:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
I would have addressed this earlier, but I wanted a little time to think of a more suitable reply.
CCP Rise wrote:
T2 haulers of course will get rebalanced as well, but likely not until after some more pressing T2 classes (let me get done with this so we can do HACs =)
Do all of us a favor and kindly forget that HACs exist until this last bit of Tiericide is done, and done properly. A statement like that, even if meant in jest, gives the distinct impression that you don't care as much about this as you did the previous ship types or HACs.
While the life of a lowsec PvPer may not involve much piloting of industrial ships, others spend considerable time doing exactly that. They may just be T1 industrials, but they're the backbone of many peoples' entire EVE experience. A lot of trade in EVE is conducted via T1 industrials; ammo and ships and supplies being moved to places that are too dangerous for freighters or too remote to justify the time it would take to send one there. T1 industrial pilots deserve as much careful consideration and attention to detail in the rebalancing of their ships as all the Stabber, Kestrel and Hyperion pilots have gotten. Please do not lazy-out on us and give us a pasted-on fix just because you have something easier and more fun to do after this phase of the project is completed.
That being said, I'm not distinctly unhappy with the solution presented. If absolutely nothing better can be come up with, then this is already an improvement. I just think there's got to be some kind of way to avoid homogenization altogether while not making any one race the obvious "best".
The Charon has the best cargo capacity of the four races, the Obelisk has the best EHP, the Fenrir the best alignment time and the Providence seems to be balanced in the middle between the three. Inheriting these traits down the line into the racial T1s that eventually lead up to them seems like a logical way of preserving flavor while also allowing for Tiericide to improve on them.
This might just be the most challenging bit of Tiericide work that you and Fozzie have had to engage in since the whole project started. All the T1 haulers have the exact same purpose and do pretty much the exact same thing. On top of this, there aren't very many ways to diversify it - especially when half of the races only have one ship each and giving both of them a third ship would tack at least a month onto the process while Art creates new assets. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
450
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Posted - 2013.06.20 11:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Saw Rixx Javix had posted and was compelled to look. Absolutely not disappointed. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
454
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Posted - 2013.06.20 13:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:I feel like you've somehow missed the point of the outcry from these last 17 pages. I haven't, I just wanted to make sure everyone understands what we're discussing. I know most people do, but there are some who seem to have heard about this and think that something drastic has happening to the Mammoth a la Vaga frills, which isn't the case. I realize that the role change is the issue for most people.
People were reacting to this the same way Vaga frills were reacted to because for a lot of us, it's on the same level.
I'm glad to see that the matter has been corrected. Tell the Art department that if they think the Mammoth is so hideous, they are the Art Department. As long as the general spirit and flavor of the Mammoth isn't trampled on too much, I think the outcry might be able to remain at a dull roar. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
454
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Posted - 2013.06.20 13:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote:So what you are saying is that if I get enough likes that you will get rid of the racial industrials for ORE ones. Perfect! To Twitter and the blogosphere!
Replacing racial industrials with ORE ones would certainly fix the problem. Just make three of them, convert all existing indy BPs to the appropriate ORE versions, replace all the industrial skills with ORE industrial at the same level, replace all the ships, etc etc...
A lot of work, to be sure, but really the best possible solution. Although it does remove the Mammoth, so our victory would be lost... ..but it would be replaced by a bigger victory instead, perhaps.
"But Alvatore, what about the freighters?"
Leave the freighters alone. Since the ORE Industrial skill would replace racial industrial skills, it would also replace the racial industrial skills in the freighter trees. Then we can continue to have our shiny brand-new V3'd freighter models that are already balanced fairly well and have nice racial flavor. Plus, since they're capital ships, this would mean that crosstraining them would speed up just like for the other capitals.
This will, of course, probably never happen. It's not a bannable offense to dream, though... |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
454
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Posted - 2013.06.20 14:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I know this is the equivalent as trying to stop the tide from coming in, but it would be nice if CCP had game designers who actually flew and used the ships they are tasked with radically changing.
Fozzie flew combat ships in PL, Rise made You Tube videos of he engaging in null sec solo / small gang warfare.
When was the last time one of these two used a T1 hauler in high sec for extended periods of time?
It would be smart if CCP had game designers with a high sec industrialist background (the main users of the T1 hauler) to overhaul these ships.
Oh yeah, I forgot....that would kind of a problem for CCP.
Name the last dev / game designer CCP pulled from high sec.
Someone earlier in the thread made a comment about how these changes seem to be made from a PVP point of view rather than an industrialist's point of view. This would probably explain it quite nicely, not that any of us didn't already know this was the answer. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
463
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Posted - 2013.06.21 03:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quantum Rise was the "Industry Expansion".
....Oh wait. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
469
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Posted - 2013.06.22 05:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kor Kilden wrote:Is the mammoth losing a high slot? I Which should I pull from my standard low/wspace/npc null mammoth, the cloak or the combat probes?
Actually, it looks like that's still the stat changes from when the Hoarder was going to be the high-capacity hauler. Rise must have changed the name and left the rest, unaware that there is a significant difference between the Hoarder's layout and the Mammoth's. I wouldn't anticipate a highslot change just yet. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
469
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Posted - 2013.06.22 05:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
A T3 industrial ship should really just be a T3 industrial ship rather than a hodgepoged frankenstein'd T1 ship. |
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
472
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Posted - 2013.06.22 12:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lledrith wrote:Jack Miton wrote:tl;dr of changes:
just remove all indies from the game and put in i set of Ore manufactured haulers.
have you consider that such change will make the Blockade Runners kinda monotonous. the hole point that CCP is "trying" to make is with this idea of revamp the industrial ship class. and with that request why not ask that all freighters get drop from each faction to with their JF counterparts too. just because CCP is forgetting something as simple like game lore in favor of aesthetics it doesn't mean that they have to. CCP Rise wrote:About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =) sorry but this whole thread smells to me as an excuse to hide the pure fact that this change is not purely for "tweaking" the ships but to give them a different look. Graphics vs. Aesthetics
You're late. The Mammoth issue is already resolved.
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
487
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Posted - 2013.06.23 03:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Would someone please tell me the need for the badger 2 to have more CPU than a titan? Even though I find it immensely hilarious, I still fail to see the practical application of this.
You see, in the Winter Expansion they're planning an Industrial Doomsday Device and... |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
487
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Posted - 2013.06.23 04:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
I believe the point of an industrial having the biggest hold it can is something along the lines of..
"I need to move a bunch of stuff around but it's not enough to justify the fat slow pig that is a freighter".
or
"I need to move stuff to market but the market's too out-of-the-way for a freighter and it's through four jumps of lowsec besides". |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
501
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Posted - 2013.06.24 05:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Molic Blackbird wrote:Galphii wrote:I'm getting the distinct impression this thread should have been posted weeks earlier, so the community could have added their input to the design and purpose of industrials. Instead, the dev team have posted a rather tepid proposed change that only now is getting the feedback it deserves.
Bottom line; either scrap the lot and give us two ORE haulers, or add some diversity to the ship's capabilities instead of just being flying cargo containers with slightly different stats. Scraping everything and going to just 2 ORE haulers is the worst solution of all and the toughest to implement. What do you do with all the ships and BPOs currently in game? What about the racial industrial skill points? Tech 2 haulers relied on the tech 1 haulers for manufacturing. What happens to those ships and BPO/BPCs? Freighters and JF require the racial Industrial skill. What do you do about that? I've probably missed a few other things that link back to the racial industrial ships. If the racial industrial ships are removed, most likely the ships further up the line would also need to be removed. That's a whole lot of ISK and Skill points that need to be handled. Not to mention the tech 2 BPOs for BR and DST. Also, I think the player base would be much more upset at a complete removal of the racial industrial ships.
Ships and BPOs : Convert them
Skillpoints: Convert them
T2: Convert those at the same time
Freighters/JF - Skills were already converted, so convert the skill tree until proper ORE/Interbus freighters can be devised, then convert.
They already showed it's possible to mess around with skill points at this scale when they did the Destroyer/Battlecruiser skill modification.
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
523
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Posted - 2013.06.25 20:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
I like my Orca, but I don't use it for industry. I use it for moving around assembled ships, disassembled ships and large amounts of.. well, stuff. I'd love to see a ship that has no ore bay and no maintenance array, instead merging the space from those into the cargo hold and the fleet hangar, respectively.
This isn't related to Tech 1 industrials, but the last couple of posts aren't either. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
528
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
This thread is obsolete and could stand to be ignored in favor of the new thread. |
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